Calvinist (Bad Logic) Comment #3: We Do What We Want?

3.  The Calvinist says:  “How does God do this [getting people to 'choose' what He willed them to do]?  By giving a person a specific set of attributes and then putting that person into an environment to which those attributes react.  Our desires reflect the attributes God gave us interacting with the environment into which God placed us.  Even you harp on this but never attempt to dispute it as even you know it is true.  You know that you have attributes with which you were born and you inhabit an environment that you did not create.  Your attributes interacting with your environment determine your desires and your desires determine what you do.  Who decided all this – God did.  Everything you [do] is what you want to do.”

[My note:  Look at the great lengths they go to instead of simply saying "God controls all you do, and you have no choice about it."]

My reply to the Calvinist:

"Everything you [do] is what you want to do.”

This is so deceptive!  It’s worded in such a way to sound like people choose how they want to react to situations, that their behavior is affected by their personality and their environment and self-chosen desires, AS IF they really have a choice.

But Calvi-god doesn’t just give people “attributes,” as in personality characteristics which affect what we choose.

NO!  Calvi-god gives people the natures they have which determines what they will desire, which determines what they will choose.  And there’s only TWO possible natures Calvi-god can give you, either the “repentant, saved” nature which comes with the desire to do right or the “unrepentant sinner” nature which comes ONLY with the desire to ALWAYS do wrong.  Those who have been predestined to get the sinner-nature can ONLY ALWAYS want to sin, and so they will ONLY ALWAYS choose to sin.  Choosing to do right was NEVER an option for them because Calvi-god predetermined they would be unrepentant sinners.

And Calvinists act like this is actually “making real choices” … and “being responsible for your choices” …. simply because they say the sinner “wanted” to sin.  Calvinists talk like “doing right” is actually a real option for the sinner … that the sinner could have chosen to do right IF they had WANTED to do right.  But since they never wanted to do right, then their sin is on them.

But … once again … the sinner is only sinning because Calvi-god predestined them to have the sinner-nature which can ONLY want to sin and NEVER want to do right.

Some choice, huh!?!

Imagine we are all in a burning building that has two doors, one to safety and one to death.  And there’s a leader who walks around handing out instruction cards to each person, and we all HAVE TO follow whatever’s on the card we get.  Let’s even say that whatever is on our card dictates which desires we will have.  We will end up desiring to do whatever’s on our card, no matter what it is, simply because the leader gets to decide for us what we will desire.  Some people get the card that causes them to desire to be saved and that tells them which door leads to safety, and so they desire to be saved and walk through the door that leads to safety.  But everyone else gets the card that tells them they HAVE TO desire death and that they HAVE TO “choose” the door that leads to death … and so, big surprise, they walk through the door that leads to death because they “desired” to go through the door that leads to death.

And Calvinists will say that those who chose death are really responsible for their choice to die because they “wanted” death, totally ignoring the fact that the leader forced them, from the very beginning, to have the death-desiring nature that can only ever desire death.  They were never able to desire to be saved.  Because of Calvi-god!

It’s insane!

We don’t dispute that we are all born with attributes and born in environments that affect us.  We dispute the part where Calvi-god predetermines our natures for us (saved, which desires to do right … or sinner, which can only desire to do wrong), thereby boxing us in to only one set of desires and only one way of responding to our circumstances.

Stop acting like this is really “having a choice”!

It’s pathetic!  A desperate attempt to get Calvi-god off the hook for sin and to twist the Bible to fit Calvinism!

(And trying to get people to concede that we are born merely with attributes and an environment that affects us is an attempt to get us to agree with the “truth” layer that you wrap around the lies.  It’s bait-and-switch, reel in the people with a small layer of truth that can’t be denied to get them to bite onto and swallow whole the huge lie that’s underneath it all.)

It’s absolute nonsense to try to reason that Calvi-god is NOT responsible for sin, that the sinner is responsible for their own sin when NOT SINNING was NEVER an option for them because Calvi-god gave them the sinner-nature that can ONLY DESIRE TO SIN.

The depth of brainwashing and self-deception in Calvinism is astounding!  How they twist Scripture so completely to fit their theology so that Christians can’t see what’s wrong with it, and so that they actually defend it fiercely!

I agree with TS00 that it’s one of the most dangerous false theologies out there (I can’t remember exactly how you said it, though), simply because it has the appearance of being so biblically-sound to those who are not aware of what it really says.  (As infuriating as it is, I appreciate that Calvinists keep sharing their views on this blog.  It gives people more opportunity to see what’s wrong with Calvinism and how they hide what they really believe.)

The Calvinist's reply, somewhere in the comment section:  "That's the distinction between you and Calvinists.  Calvinists say that people do not have real choices; they can only do what they desire."

[My clarification:  And they can only desire, according to Calvinism, that which their Calvi-god-given nature tells them to desire.

So remember this important point: When Calvinists say that we do what we desire, they mean "We don't really make real and free choices; we just 'choose' what God causes us to desire to choose."  AND ... just as crucial ... they believe that God then punishes us for our "free, real choices" to sin, when He is the very cause of them, according to them.

What does this say about the character of God!?!  About His trustworthiness, justice, goodness, etc.!?!  About the Gospel message and our chances for salvation!?!  About our own responsibilities as we live a life of faith!?!]



(For all the posts in this series, see the "Intro ..."  Or look for "'Calvinist Bad Logic' Series" in the labels on the side-bar.  Or find the whole series in one post, "When Calvinism's 'Bad Logic ' Traps Good Christians.")