Update to "Letter To Our Elders," About Teaching Predestination in the Kids' Classes

I added this update to the post "Letter To Our Elders Regarding Calvinism That's Growing In Our Church," but I wanted to put it in it's own post too.  Just because.  (FYI, Our ex-church is an Evangelical Free Church, and these churches are being taken over by Calvinism all over the place.  Nearly 40% of EVFree churches are Calvinist, and I believe that number will grow.  See this post for more on that.)  

In that letter, I didn't have any real requests for the elders other than that they try to reel in the pastor about how dogmatic he is about his Calvinism ... and that they did not teach predestination (the Calvinist version) in the kids' classes without at least notifying the parents or asking their permission first.  Because this is a highly debatable issue.  And so the parents should be able to decide what they want their kids to hear about it, especially since it strongly affects people's faith and view of God.  

Here is the update I added:
   

Update September 2020: In the kids' youth group, they are starting a new, school-year-long series (written by two Calvinists) on Ephesians (a big book for Calvinists, right after Romans) where they will be teaching on the "big words" of Ephesians, and some of these words are "called" and "chosen" and "predestined" and "sovereign."  All of these are biblical words, of course, but they are reinterpreted by Calvinists to push Calvinism.  So despite my one specific request that they do not teach predestination to the kids without notifying the parents first or seeking permission, they are teaching it to the kids anyway, without ever sending a note home to us parents.  

I found out because my kids told me.  Thankfully, my kids are well-educated about what the Bible really says.  And maybe they can even be truth-bearers to those in their small groups, helping them to realize the errors of Calvinism and to realize that they have biblical reasons to question it.  (Also, last fall, the leader of one of my kids' small groups - an elder - discussed this topic one night without telling us parents.  This bothered my 13-year-old son so much - because the only friend of his who also disagrees with Calvinism wasn't there that night, and so my son had to quietly sit and listen to everyone else agree with it - that my son left his group right in the middle of it and called home to ask me to pick him up early, which I gladly did.  So much for notifying the parents or giving the parents a say in what's being taught to their kids about this highly debatable issue!)

And to top it all off, the leaders set up this series by telling the kids that they are going to study the words that people have changed over the years because they had trouble accepting the truth, to bring it back to their "original definitions" (read: Calvinist definitions).  

And at the beginning of the "predestined" word-study (which just happened), the youth pastor set it up by saying something like this: "Not everyone agrees about this issue, and there are other ways Christians understand this word and how the Bible uses it", trying to sound like he was being sensitive to those who see it differently.  (But at least he acknowledged there are other ways to view it, which is something our head pastor never really did.)  But then he immediately went on to present his Calvinist view as the "biblical" way of understanding it.  Constantly reminding the kids that his view is the "biblical" view, and so, therefore, anyone who sees it differently is clearly wrong. 

And, of course, right there at the top of the "predestination" page was a quote from R.C. Sproul: "Predestination means, in its elemental form, that the final destination of heaven or hell is decided by God before we get there and before we are born" (Essentials of the Faith).

"Original, biblical definitions," huh?

More like "R.C. Sproul's definitions"! 

(Calvinists use "biblical" so often about their Calvinism - "the biblical doctrine of predestination ... the biblical doctrines of grace ... the biblical view of election ... the biblical view of salvation ... etc." that it should make us wonder why they have to stress it so much!  It's like those people who are like "You can totally trust me.  I am very trustworthy and honest.  So you can tell me your secrets.  I won't tell anyone because I am totally trustworthy."  The more they have to say it, the less true it is!)   

Talk about manipulation right from the start!  Paraphrased: "We, your trusted, spiritual, godly church-leaders, are going to tell you kids what these words really mean.  Some people have trouble accepting the hard teachings of the Bible, and so they want to change it to something they like better.  But we are going back to the true, 'biblical' meaning of these words [according to Calvinist men], because we accept the hard teachings like good, humble Christians.  We alone have the truth, and if you disagree with us then you are wrong and are going against the Bible."  

Calvinist manipulation!  What child will dare to question what they're being taught when this is how they set it up!  

Oh, the innocent, trusting minds these Calvinists mislead!  The simple faith they complicate and ruin!  The clear, simple teachings of Scripture and the wonderful characteristics of God they destroy!  The sacrifice and love and grace of Jesus they minimize!  The hearts they ruin!

Have I mentioned how much I hate Calvinism!?!  

[I just noticed that our ex-church recently joined 9Marks.  Boy, am I glad we got out of there when we did!  It's sad to see firsthand how a wonderful church can slide deeper and deeper into aggressive Calvinism.  

It used to be such an amazing church, the best around.  And now, after the new Calvinist pastor joined, I've seen him shame and manipulate people from the pulpit into agreeing with him, paint those who would disagree in a bad light (assuring that no one would want to speak up against his views), indoctrinate people with Calvinism in small-group studies of Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology, assemble an elder board that is basically full of only Calvinists, allow the preaching of Calvinism in the children's classes without the parents knowing beforehand, write Calvinist posts on the church blog and then dis-allow replies when I was commenting against his Calvinist views too much (I have also noticed how the other people who write on the church blog have started to sound more and more like him), and sign the church up with The Gospel Coalition and now with 9Marks.  I have yet to see him make this an elder-ruled church, instead of congregation-ruled, but I would guess that it's right around the corner.  

Anyway, I am glad we got out of there when we did.  We tried to share our concerns with the elders, but they didn't want to listen.  And I wonder if any of them dared to research the other side of Calvinism for themselves after we sent them our letter.  Or did they simply run to their Calvinist heroes (Grudem, Piper, MacArthur, Sproul, our pastor, etc.) for comfort and answers?  

Anyway, we did what we could.  Now it's on them.  They have made their choice and will be responsible for the direction they take the church.  (The poor, unsuspecting people in the congregation who have no idea where they are headed!)  And all we can do now is "shake the dust from our feet" and worry about our own family.  But still ... it's sad.  We had such a great church and such a great community of believers there.  Breaks my heart!]  

An Extra Note:

To understand why I am concerned about them joining The Gospel Coalition and 9Marks and about possibly becoming "elder-led" (this is taken from my post "How to tell if a church, pastor, or website is Calvinist"):

11.  Ask them if their church is elder-ruled or congregation-ruled?  What is the role of the elders?  How do they lead?  Are they responsible for making all the decisions?  What say does the congregation get in matters?  Who do the elders and the pastor answer to?  (If even just asking these questions causes them to react harshly or defensively, I'd be very concerned.)  

This might be a hard one to figure out and to be discerning about.  (I myself am just learning about this.)  But it seems that Calvinist churches (at least the more dogmatic, legalistic ones) tend to be elder-ruled.  They believe that they are in authority over you, and that no one is in authority over them.  And so they don't take kindly to being questioned or challenged.  

And these churches may end up putting more and more power into the hands of fewer and fewer elders, until only a few Calvinist men are in power over all.  

[If you hear talk about changing by-laws, or if they recently changed the by-laws, sit up and take notice, and find out what they changed or what they want to change, and why.  They may be slowly, subtly implementing more aggressive complementarian policies (I will look at this soon), shifting power into the hands of the elders, or concentrating the power into the hands of less elders.  When all the power is in the hands of less people, with no one to oversee them, it opens up to the door to potential spiritual abuse and dogmatic legalism.]  

And if you want to, ask how many times they've disciplined members and what they will discipline members for.  If you notice that they are pretty aggressive with their discipline and that they discipline for lots of "smaller" things, I would be concerned.  (Do they have a clear idea of the things they discipline for, or do they wing it?  Winging it opens the door to over-discipline - doing it whenever they feel like, whenever they don't like something, whenever they feel threatened.)  

For your consideration: 
"Elder Rule increasing in Baptist life, and so is controversy over the role"  

SBC Insurrection: Calvinists Go for the Crown, JD Greear, David Platt, et all

Calvinism and the Cultural Spoon-Feeding of Control and Tyranny  (A must-read if you want to know why Calvinists are so controlling of their churches.  Be sure to read the article he links to in the first paragraph, written by 9Marks.  Also see his "New Calvinism and Hotel California.")]

And further down in that post: Additional note about 9Marks and Acts 29 churches:

I am sure this is not representative of all 9Marks and Acts 29 churches, but it seems that not only are these Calvinist churches (along with those listed with The Gospel Coalition), but they are Calvinist churches with legalistic, control issues.

For your consideration:

9Marks Church Authority Over Church Members

9marks Spiritual Abuse and How Church Members Can Fall Through the Cracks

Why Are 9marks Churches So Unhealthy?

Problems of Abuse at 9Marks Churches

Christmas Letter from Hell

Do Acts 29 Churches Share the DNA of the Mothership, Matt Chandler's The Village Church?

FBC Sapulpa Mails 9Marks Church Discipline Letters

Thoughtful Pastor: Is Acts 29 a Cult?  Why Do They Marry So Young?

New Calvinism’s Dirty Little Secret: How They Practice "Redemptive" Church Discipline

9marks Category at The Wartburg Watch

Acts 29 Category at The Wartburg Watch 

The Gospel Coalition Category at The Wartburg Watch

https://gbfsvchurchabuse.org/tag/the-gospel-coalition/

https://gbfsvchurchabuse.org/tag/9-marks/

https://gbfsvchurchabuse.org/tag/acts-29/

Church Membership Covenants - Legal Contracts that are NOT Biblical

Further Proof You Are Signing A Legal Contract Not A Membership Covenant: Courtesy of The Gospel Coalition

How to resign from a church whether or not you are under church discipline

(For a disturbing example of church discipline gone wrong in one of these churches, click here and follow the links.)

You've been warned!  Now be careful and discerning!