Piper's Problematic Perspective on Proverbs

(Say that five times fast!)

An excerpt from my post "A Crash Course in Calvinism (Calvinist quotes)" showing how John Piper - and all Calvinists - misunderstand and incorrectly use Proverbs to support their bad theology, even though Proverbs was never meant to be taken as hard-core, bottom-line theology through which to filter and reinterpret the rest of the Bible, the clear and easily-understood verses which do not support Calvinism [my comments are in purple, and I've added some that aren't in the original post]: 

John Piper (from his article “Has God Predetermined Every Tiny Detail in the Universe, Including Sin?”) says: “Has God predetermined every tiny detail in the universe, such as dust particles in the air and all of our besetting sins? Yes… Now the reason I believe that is because the Bible says, “The dice are thrown in the lap, and every decision is from the Lord” (Proverbs 16:33*)… Yes, every horrible thing and every sinful thing is ultimately governed by God… He controls everything, and he does it for his glory and our good.”  

My comments: Well, the good of the elect only, that is.  Certainly not the bulk of humanity, the non-elect.  

But as a theologian, Piper should know that the proverbs are principles/wise advice, not promises or hard-core theology.  (*Also, see the note below about "the dice".)  

The thing is, if Proverbs were promises/hard-core theology, then all these would have to be too: 

Proverbs 22:4: "Humility and fear of the Lord bring wealth and honor and life" 

16:20: "Whoever gives heed to instruction prospers"

21:5: "The plans of the diligent lead to profit"

(Wouldn't the above Proverbs support the Prosperity Gospel if taken as hard-core theology?  And wouldn't they contradict verses that tell us that Christians might have little and that we should be content with little, such as Proverbs 16:8?)  

22:6: "Train a child up in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it."  (If this is hard-core theology, then it's a promise that every child raised in the faith will stay in the faith.  But does this always happen?  So then is God lying... or do Calvinists misunderstand what Proverbs are and turn them into something they were never meant to be?)

21:9: "Better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife" (But if the book of Proverbs is to be taken as hard-core theology, how would this fit with Proverbs 18:22: "He who finds a wife finds what is good and receives favor from the Lord"?  Wouldn't they contradict each other or cancel each other out?)  

12:21: "No harm befalls the righteous" (Wouldn't this hard-core theological "promise" contradict the verses that tell us that Christians will face hardships and maybe even be martyred?)

23:2: "and put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony."  (Well, the Bible says!)

23:14: "Punish [your child] with the rod and save his soul from death." (So salvation can come through Jesus or beating your child with a rod.)

And how could we apply both of these if they were both literal, bottom-line theological truths at the same time: "Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself" (26:4) and "Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes" (26:5)?  They would cancel each other out.

I could go on, but you get the picture.  Do we say that these are hard-and-fast Bible rules, promises, and foundational theological teachings?  Do we filter the rest of the Bible through them, changing the teachings of other more clear verses to accommodate Proverbs like these?  (Can you see what a mess it creates if we try to do this?)

So then why do Calvinists do it with the few Proverbs that seem to support Calvinism?

But if they’re gonna make a few Proverbs literal, hard-core, bottom-line theology, they can't just pick and choose the verses they want.  They've got to do it with all of Proverbs.  And so all Proverbs, like the ones above, should be part of their hard-core, foundational, theological belief system too, including this one:

16:1: "To man belong the plans of the heart...", which would contradict Calvinism's idea that God is the predestiner/causer/controller of all things, including the plans of our hearts.

And here's another idea: When Calvinists (as they always do) use Prov. 21:1 (“the kings’ heart is in the hand of the Lord, he directs it like a watercourse wherever he pleases”) as literal, hard-core, bottom-line theology to "prove" that God controls our thoughts, desires, actions, destinies... then you remind them that it if they want to take Proverbs literally then it literally specifies that the king’s heart is in the Lord’s hand: the king's heart... and no one else’s.

Their own insistence that Proverbs is literal, hard-core theology defeats their attempt to use Proverbs 21:1 to "prove" Calvinism!

And let's not forget that while Calvinists use proverbs - principles/wise sayings - to supposedly prove their idea that God preplans and causes all things, even sin, they completely ignore verses that show He doesn't (and notice that these are God's own words about Himself, not King Solomon's ideas about God):

1 Kings 20:42: "He said to the king, 'This is what the Lord says: 'You have set free a man I had determined should die.''"

Hosea 8:4: "They set up kings without my consent; they choose princes without my approval."

Jeremiah 19:5: "They have built the high places to Baal to burn their sons in the fire as offerings to Baal - something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind."

Ezekiel 13:22 (CSB): "Because you have disheartened the righteous person with lies (when I intended no distress)..."

Isaiah 30:1: "'Woe to the obstinate children,' declares the Lord, 'to those who carry out plans that are not mine...'"

And yet Calvinists ignore clear verses like these or reinterpret them through unclear Proverbs (which were never meant to be hard-core theology), such as ones about God controlling the roll of the dice and the king's heart.  

[And furthermore, it's one thing to say that God is in control over all, but it's another to say, as Calvinists do, that He controls all.  One is about the position of authority God has over all, but the other is about Calvinists deciding how God must act in His position of authority (saying that He must actively preplan/cause/control all things, even sin and evil and unbelief, or else He couldn't be a sovereign God).  One is biblical, but the other is not.  One keeps God's character intact, but the other destroys it.]

Along similar lines (but not about Proverbs), John Piper (from his article “Does God Predestine People to Hell?”) also says: “My answer is yes. God does determine from eternity who will be saved.  But he does it in ways that are mysterious to us so that on that day no one will find any legitimate fault with God.”  

My comments: Calvinists think that since the non-elect follow their sinful, rebellious desires, they’re responsible and can be held accountable.  But remember that, in Calvinism, they got the unregenerated nature God predestined for them, with the sinful/rebellious desires He built into it that they must obey, and they have no ability to change it, no option to do anything differently.  And yet they are punished for it.  This is NOT justice.  It makes God unjust, unrighteous, untrustworthy, and the cause of all sin.  

And note: Calvinists use the word “mystery” to cover up contradictions they create, to make people accept their nonsense without pushback.  “It’s a mystery, so don’t try to figure it out, don’t think about it too much.  Just accept it and trust what we say, like a humble Christian.”  

But if they can excuse any terrible twist they put on Scripture or any horrible destruction they do to God's character with "Well, it's a mystery.  God understands it, so we don't have to," then they can get you to accept anything, even the idea that God causes child rape for His glory, that it's okay, and that He should be worshiped for it!  

(As our Calvinist pastor said, paraphrased: "God ordained all your tragedies - even childhood abuse - for His glory, for your good, and to be keep you humble, because He knew what it would take to humble you.... And so you should trust Him."  Anyone else want to throw up?)

Calvinist theology creates terrible contradictions that have terrible implications for God's character and our faith, and yet they try in many ways to get you to not think too deeply about it, convincing you that you don't and shouldn't think about it now because it will all make sense later in eternity.  Can you not see the dangerous, cult-like tactics here that have huge, damaging consequences?

(Also see my post "The 9 Marks of a Calvinist Cult.")

*A note about "the dice":

Here are a couple great comments (lightly edited) on how Calvinist incorrectly understand the "casting the dice" Proverb (found in the comment section of the Soteriology 101 post "Casting Lots to Find God's Will"):

From Jenai Rothnie: "Actually, no.  The scripture doesn’t say when ‘anyone casts a lot.’  It says ‘the lot is cast…’  Huge difference, as for Solomon in his time the “lot” was something the priests (not the regular people) cast to find the will of God, or determine who committed a crime, or seek other information (Joshua 7:14-18; 1 Samuel 14:42, Acts 1:24, etc.).  There isn’t really a scriptural or historical reason to be treating it like a dice roll.  

And the “lot” told the people God’s will but didn’t force them to obey it. (For example, Jonathan was chosen by the lot for his ‘crime’ of eating honey.  But even though Saul swore the perpetrator would die and the lot pointed definitively to Jonathan, the people rescued him and Jonathan was not killed.)  

I’m not sure I can find a really good reason to take English connotations of the term to treat it as a dice roll.

The ‘casting of lots’ in the Old Testament was a specific ritual whereby a priest, or petitioner through a priest, could inquire of God (Num 27:21m Ezra 2:62-63); as distinguished from lots cast by pagan nations, which were chance or divination.  The priest would cast the Urim and the Thummin, much like getting a ‘yes or no’ answer from God.  There were also twelve stones in the breastplate that could be used in conjunction, to determine matters regarding the twelve tribes (Ex 28:15-21)...

Casting the lot was very different from leaving something to chance, such as dice rolls or drawing straws.  It was a direct inquiry of the Lord.  Hence, while the priest physically casts the lot “into the lap”, it’s every judgement was directly from God (Prov 16:33).

Compare this to rolling a die multiple times, and getting different results every time.  While the rules binding dice are set by God (physics, probability), one could not construe every individual roll of a die to be direct revelation from God, without believing in a changeable God.

If a priest were to cast the Urim and Thummin multiple times, it would always come up the same.  However, this was unnecessary, as God’s answer was final.

In the Old Testament, there were several ways of God communicating to the people.  The primary ways were by the prophets, by visions/dreams, and by the casting of the Urim and Thummin by the priest. (I Sam 28:4-7).

Now that Christ has come, and believers have the Holy Spirit, God has written His law directly on our hearts, and we can pray to God through Christ.  The old system of priests is obsolete, for now Jesus is our High Priest.

“In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe” (Heb 1:1-2)

Yet, in Old Testament times; the lot, dreams, and the prophets were often the people’s only connection to gaining an answer from God...

Steve Sabin adds: Consider that the word “lots” cannot be correctly translated as “dice” – and then [we cannot] use this incorrect translation to extrapolate and conclude that the outcome of any random game of chance or any event in life is God’s will. 

Lots had special significance in the Old Testament and were a divinely inspired way of ascertaining God’s will.  This verse, I believe, is referring to the special practice of priests casting lots to determine God’s will...

The last time we see lots being cast for such purposes is in the book of Acts where they were used to select the apostle that would replace Judas Iscariot.  After that, we never see the use of lots again.  Ever.  Bear in mind also that this was before the Day of Pentecost.  I believe the reason for the use of lots in this instance was that the Holy Spirit had not yet been poured out upon believers.  After this outpouring, God’s will no longer required the casting of lots – it could be determined by listening to the Holy Spirit.

To make the astronomical jump – as people such as James White and John Piper enthusiastically do – that every random throw of the dice in every casino in the world results in an outcome specifically and (to use Calvinist language) “particularly” ordained by God is reading far more into this proverb than is warranted.  Calvinists are particularly prone to this error of seizing upon one passage to the omission of many others....

I looked up every single instance of “lots” in the scriptures and something very interesting and significant emerged: the Bible always (with a few exceptions) refers to casting of lots with a specific intention of using them to seek God’s will.  This is a far cry from God decreeing the outcome of every random throw of the dice and micro/macro event in the universe, as James White and other Calvinists would suggest.

In other words, the proper understanding of Prov 16:33 is in the context of every other scripture in the Bible dealing with this topic: when used prior to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, the lot was used to discern God’s will, and when conducted in that manner – rather than just pertaining to every random event – God indeed directed the outcome.

There are no recorded instances of using the lot to determine God’s will after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.  We now have the Holy Spirit to guide us.

[Steve then goes on to give an exhaustive list of verses that talk about the casting of lots.]

Just another look at how Calvinists improperly interpret and use Proverbs and then, in turn, improperly reinterpret the rest of Scripture through those improperly understood Proverbs, creating one big theological mess!