Things My Calvinist Pastor Said #11: God Ordains Child Abuse
(This "Things My Calvinist Pastor Said" series is a breakdown on this much longer post: "We Left Our Church Because of Calvinism," which was written last year but updated July 2020. They are almost exact quotes. All memes were created with imgflip.)
11. "God ordained everything that happened in your life, even all the tragedies, even childhood abuse. It was His 'Plan A' for your life. For His glory and His purposes, for your good, and because He knew what it would take to humble you. So you just have to trust Him."
This was the sermon when I decided I was done listening to that man! Saying that God caused your childhood abuse for His glory and to humble you!?! Wicked, wretched twisting of God's character! My goodness, do I feel like crying! (And I was not abused as a child. But my heart hurt to think of those who were and who had to listen to this horrible, wretched twisting of God's character. I could almost hear hearts and faith and trust-in-God breaking all over the congregation that day. And I will include part of that post I wrote at the end of this point #11.)
Listen here to Calvinist James White try to explain how God causes child rape for His glory, saying that if God didn't cause it then it would be meaningless but if God caused it then it has purpose.
So ... it's so much friggin' better to have a God who preplans and causes someone to abuse an innocent child and who then punishes the abuser for the abuse He forced him to do ... than to have a God who simply allows mankind to make decisions on their own, even bad ones, and who promises to work good out of bad and to hold us all accountable for our choices!?!
So says the Calvinist! (And even if they won't say it, it's what their theology undeniably teaches when you carry it all out to its end.) And that is the kind of God they want and worship and try to be like. Scary.
According to Calvinism, if you are one of the non-elect, it's because God has predestined you to hell ... for His glory! They say that since He causes everything "for His glory," then He gets glory for predestining you to hell. He gets glory for causing child abuse, for causing people to reject Him, for causing murder, for causing people to struggle with addictions, for causing abortions, for causing affairs or divorce, for causing Satan to fight against Him and to try to steal His glory. All of this brings God glory ... because God causes everything for His glory ... so says the Calvinist.
So then ... why in the world would we try to stop any evil if God is causing all evil for His glory?
You know how one Calvinist answered this when I asked him. He said "Because it brings God glory when we fight against evil."
So let me get this straight: God causes evil for His glory, and then He causes us to fight against evil for His glory. And they are both equally glorifying to Him.
So then, taking a life is as glorifying as trying to save a life!?! Aborting a baby is as glorifying as saving a baby!?! Letting someone die in their alcohol or drug addiction is as glorifying as helping them overcome their addiction!?! Having an affair is as glorifying as being faithful!?! Punishing someone for a crime is as glorifying as committing the crime!?! Rejecting Him and going to hell is as glorifying as believing in Him and going to heaven!?! Because God causes everything that happens for His glory!?!
Wow, how's that for a wicked, wretched, circular-reasoning, "turning darkness into light" teaching! Just ... WOW! Un-freakin'-believable!
[Calvinists will look right at you and say (like my pastor does), "Of course, God does not tempt anyone to sin," but in the next breath they'll say, "But God ordains (read: preplans/causes) all the wicked things men do" (and we could not have chosen to do anything differently). They trick themselves and others into thinking they aren't saying God causes sin when they really are, simply because they first acknowledged the Bible verse about God not tempting anyone to sin. But that's as believable as someone saying "I'm not trying to hurt you" as he repeatedly punches you in the face.]
This was the sermon when I decided I was done listening to that man! Saying that God caused your childhood abuse for His glory and to humble you!?! Wicked, wretched twisting of God's character! My goodness, do I feel like crying! (And I was not abused as a child. But my heart hurt to think of those who were and who had to listen to this horrible, wretched twisting of God's character. I could almost hear hearts and faith and trust-in-God breaking all over the congregation that day. And I will include part of that post I wrote at the end of this point #11.)
Listen here to Calvinist James White try to explain how God causes child rape for His glory, saying that if God didn't cause it then it would be meaningless but if God caused it then it has purpose.
So ... it's so much friggin' better to have a God who preplans and causes someone to abuse an innocent child and who then punishes the abuser for the abuse He forced him to do ... than to have a God who simply allows mankind to make decisions on their own, even bad ones, and who promises to work good out of bad and to hold us all accountable for our choices!?!
So says the Calvinist! (And even if they won't say it, it's what their theology undeniably teaches when you carry it all out to its end.) And that is the kind of God they want and worship and try to be like. Scary.
According to Calvinism, if you are one of the non-elect, it's because God has predestined you to hell ... for His glory! They say that since He causes everything "for His glory," then He gets glory for predestining you to hell. He gets glory for causing child abuse, for causing people to reject Him, for causing murder, for causing people to struggle with addictions, for causing abortions, for causing affairs or divorce, for causing Satan to fight against Him and to try to steal His glory. All of this brings God glory ... because God causes everything for His glory ... so says the Calvinist.
So then ... why in the world would we try to stop any evil if God is causing all evil for His glory?
You know how one Calvinist answered this when I asked him. He said "Because it brings God glory when we fight against evil."
So let me get this straight: God causes evil for His glory, and then He causes us to fight against evil for His glory. And they are both equally glorifying to Him.
So then, taking a life is as glorifying as trying to save a life!?! Aborting a baby is as glorifying as saving a baby!?! Letting someone die in their alcohol or drug addiction is as glorifying as helping them overcome their addiction!?! Having an affair is as glorifying as being faithful!?! Punishing someone for a crime is as glorifying as committing the crime!?! Rejecting Him and going to hell is as glorifying as believing in Him and going to heaven!?! Because God causes everything that happens for His glory!?!
Wow, how's that for a wicked, wretched, circular-reasoning, "turning darkness into light" teaching! Just ... WOW! Un-freakin'-believable!
[Calvinists will look right at you and say (like my pastor does), "Of course, God does not tempt anyone to sin," but in the next breath they'll say, "But God ordains (read: preplans/causes) all the wicked things men do" (and we could not have chosen to do anything differently). They trick themselves and others into thinking they aren't saying God causes sin when they really are, simply because they first acknowledged the Bible verse about God not tempting anyone to sin. But that's as believable as someone saying "I'm not trying to hurt you" as he repeatedly punches you in the face.]
(Taken from that "Does God Cause Childhood Abuse?" post.)
It’s one thing to say that God causes a natural disaster or loss of a job or an illness, for His purposes. None of those involve causing someone to commit terrible sins. But it’s another thing to say that He causes people to sin or that He deliberately causes someone to do something as evil as abusing a child ... and that if you were abused as a child, it’s because God wanted it to happen, planned for it to happen, and caused it to happen (a Calvinist's view of "ordains"), for your own good and for His loving purposes for you.
Are you freakin’ kidding me!?! (I’m using stronger language in my head!)
It’s one thing to say that God causes a natural disaster or loss of a job or an illness, for His purposes. None of those involve causing someone to commit terrible sins. But it’s another thing to say that He causes people to sin or that He deliberately causes someone to do something as evil as abusing a child ... and that if you were abused as a child, it’s because God wanted it to happen, planned for it to happen, and caused it to happen (a Calvinist's view of "ordains"), for your own good and for His loving purposes for you.
Are you freakin’ kidding me!?! (I’m using stronger language in my head!)
But I say "ABSOLUTELY NOT!" I don't believe for one stinkin' second that God causes children to be abused.
God might summon an evil nation to discipline rebellious people, such as God using Assyria to discipline Israel. However, God did not make them be evil or make them choose to do evil. He just worked their self-chosen evilness into His plans. And He was dealing with Israel out of His justice – to discipline them and turn their hearts back to Him and make them want to restore their relationship with Him.
But I don’t think this example is comparable to causing someone to sin by abusing an innocent child, which is not an act of justice, nor discipline, nor restoration. (At least to my way of thinking.)
And He might allow Satan to cause all sorts of tragedies, like what happened to Job. But if you read carefully, you see that God did not decide which tragedies to allow. He didn't cause the tragedies. He let Satan do as Satan wanted, within boundaries. He let Satan attack Job, but He didn't cause it.
Calvinists are all about God being "in control." And we would all agree that He's "in control." But Calvinists take it to mean, "God actively controls everything, even sin." But this is taking "in control" too far, farther than God chooses to handle things in the Bible. And saying that God causes someone to abuse a child for His purposes and for their good (and that we just have to trust His wisdom and goodness because He had His reasons) is taking the idea of “God is in control” too far.
What kind of God would He be if that was the case!?! It might make Him a “fully in-control” God, but it wouldn’t make Him worthy of love, worship, respect, or trust.
Yes, God is “in control,” but I do not believe that He causes people to be evil or to choose to do evil. He lets people make decisions. He lets evil run its course, to a degree. And He can work it into His plans. And He is always available to hear our prayers for help and healing.
But He does not make people sin.
Abuse of innocent children happens NOT because God causes it, but because God allows people to make decisions, even bad ones. God allowed Sarah to beat her maid, Hagar, but He didn’t cause her to do it or condone it. God allowed Joseph’s brothers to sell him into slavery and He worked it into His plans, but He didn’t necessarily cause it or condone it.
If someone sins, it’s not because God made them do it. It’s because they chose to go down that path.
“When tempted, no one should say, ‘God is tempting me.’ For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.” (James 1:13-15)
Just because He allows people to make their own decisions and He allows them to be evil doesn’t mean that He causes them to be evil or to do evil things. God has the wisdom and foresight to orchestrate events to put someone’s sin to good use, but He does not make them sin. God has chosen to give people the ability to make their own decisions. And many people chose to do evil. But it does not mean God causes it or condones it.
(However, Calvinists would say that "by his own evil desire" in that verse means that God predetermined which desires people would have through the natures He assigns them. So if someone has the "unrepentant-sinner nature," then they can only desire to do evil all the time, which means they can only choose evil all the time. And Calvinists act like that's "having a choice, according to our own desires." But does that really sound like what the verse is saying?)
In no way do I think He causes children to be abused. He has a heart for children and gives them special provisions. Ephesians 6:4 says that fathers should not exasperate their children. Matthew 18:6 says that if someone causes a child of God’s to sin (and doesn’t abuse oftentimes cause people to turn away from God!?!), it would be better if they were drowned in the sea. And Matthew 18:10 tells us to not even look down on children because “their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.”
If people are not even supposed to look down on children because they are like the face of God, I would whole-heartedly say that we are not supposed to abuse them either. God has put up special protections around children and they are especially close to His heart. Abuse is NOT in His plan or Will for them.
Do you know how a Calvinist once replied to those verses when I brought them up? "Oh, those are about the 'elect' children only." They try so hard to make the Bible say something it doesn't say! So desperate to not have to take responsibility for their actions or for their decision about Jesus!
And for the record, I was never abused. So this isn't personal for me. But my heart breaks for those who were abused and who have to hear this kind of nonsense ... for those who sat in the audience that day at my church, with their painful emotional scars and their broken spirits, being forced to think, My God made that happen to me when I was a child? My God wanted that to happen? He caused that person to do that to me when I was too young to defend myself, for my good and to keep me humble? What kind of a God is that!?!
I think this kind of teaching is so damaging to Truth and God's character and people's faith, telling them that they have to trust that God knew what He was doing when He caused them to be repeatedly abused as a child, that it was for His glory and their own good and their spiritual growth, because He loves them and He wants the best for them and He knew what they needed to go through in order to be humbled.
No! NO! NOOO!!!
FRICKIN' NO!!!
It's one thing to encourage people to trust in a God who allows people to choose how they want to act, who even allows people to choose to do bad things He doesn't want them to do because it's part of allowing us to have free-will, a God who can and will bring healing and bring something good out of your pain if you let Him ... but it's another thing to tell people to trust in a God who orchestrated the abuse you went through, who wanted and planned for you to be abused, for His purposes, for His glory, because He knew you needed it to be humbled.
What the heck!?!
(Once again, I'm using stronger language in my head! My blood is freakin' boiling! Seriously ... what the heck!?!)
I think this kind of teaching goes against the very nature and heart of God. I think it misrepresents Him terribly and that it is detrimental to people’s faith.
If Calvinists want to believe and spread the idea that God causes sin and evil then that's their problem (one that they will give an account for when they stand before God).
But I will stand up for the God of the Bible, who is far different than Calvi-God!
The Bible's God loves all, died for all, and offers hope, healing, grace, forgiveness, and salvation to all. But Calvi-God causes evil and sin but punishes us for it, he only sent Jesus to die for the elect, and he predestines people to hell because it brings Him "glory." Two totally different Gods!
(Can you imagine being a Calvinist and standing before God one day, having to give an explanation for what you told others about Him and about Jesus's sacrifice? Terrifying! And I doubt "But I was trying to uphold Your sovereignty" is going to cut it.)
God doesn’t cause people to be evil or to sin, but He does allow people to make bad decisions and to do bad things. And evil things are part of a fallen world where demons run wild.
But even though God didn’t cause it, He can work it into something good. And He knew what was happening to someone who was abused as a child. He knew what that person chose to do to you. And I think His heart broke for you, that He wept for you. Because abuse is never His plan for children. And someday, the offender will stand before Him and give an account to Him for what they did.
But for you, God can help heal the pain – pain He never wanted for you, for humans, when He created the world perfect. He can bring good out of it, if you will let Him. He wants to heal you and to love you and to set you free. And someday, He will make all things right again!
But do not, for one second, buy that crap that God caused your abuse for your own good or for His loving purposes! That it was His "Plan A" for your life. That’s pure crap! (Goodness, am I getting fired about this one! It’s just so damaging and so not what God is like!)
No! Abuse and violence and hate was never God's Plan A. God's Plan A was a life of peace and joy and wholeness and safety and security in the Garden of Eden where we walked with Him and knew Him intimately. His Plan A was an eternity of peace and joy and fellowship with Him. Not abuse and fear and violence and hate and brokenness. God didn't introduce those things into this world, into our lives. We did, through disobedience and rebellion. We - with Satan's help - interfered with God's Plan A. Through our choices and actions.
But we didn't destroy it for good. We just postponed it.
God is still working His Plan A into history, into our lives. Through Jesus' death, we can find salvation from our sins and from our brokenness. God is still about wholeness and joy and life. He's about peace and forgiveness and healing, about using our sins and mistakes and pain for good and working it into His plans, if we will let Him.
But He lets us decide how to live and how to respond to Him. He lets us sin and disobey and hurt others and get bitter and self-destruct and reject Him and choose death.
But He is always beckoning to us, always offering us peace, joy, healing, wholeness, and eternal life with Him!
His real Plan A for our lives!
God might summon an evil nation to discipline rebellious people, such as God using Assyria to discipline Israel. However, God did not make them be evil or make them choose to do evil. He just worked their self-chosen evilness into His plans. And He was dealing with Israel out of His justice – to discipline them and turn their hearts back to Him and make them want to restore their relationship with Him.
But I don’t think this example is comparable to causing someone to sin by abusing an innocent child, which is not an act of justice, nor discipline, nor restoration. (At least to my way of thinking.)
And He might allow Satan to cause all sorts of tragedies, like what happened to Job. But if you read carefully, you see that God did not decide which tragedies to allow. He didn't cause the tragedies. He let Satan do as Satan wanted, within boundaries. He let Satan attack Job, but He didn't cause it.
Calvinists are all about God being "in control." And we would all agree that He's "in control." But Calvinists take it to mean, "God actively controls everything, even sin." But this is taking "in control" too far, farther than God chooses to handle things in the Bible. And saying that God causes someone to abuse a child for His purposes and for their good (and that we just have to trust His wisdom and goodness because He had His reasons) is taking the idea of “God is in control” too far.
What kind of God would He be if that was the case!?! It might make Him a “fully in-control” God, but it wouldn’t make Him worthy of love, worship, respect, or trust.
Yes, God is “in control,” but I do not believe that He causes people to be evil or to choose to do evil. He lets people make decisions. He lets evil run its course, to a degree. And He can work it into His plans. And He is always available to hear our prayers for help and healing.
But He does not make people sin.
Abuse of innocent children happens NOT because God causes it, but because God allows people to make decisions, even bad ones. God allowed Sarah to beat her maid, Hagar, but He didn’t cause her to do it or condone it. God allowed Joseph’s brothers to sell him into slavery and He worked it into His plans, but He didn’t necessarily cause it or condone it.
If someone sins, it’s not because God made them do it. It’s because they chose to go down that path.
“When tempted, no one should say, ‘God is tempting me.’ For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.” (James 1:13-15)
Just because He allows people to make their own decisions and He allows them to be evil doesn’t mean that He causes them to be evil or to do evil things. God has the wisdom and foresight to orchestrate events to put someone’s sin to good use, but He does not make them sin. God has chosen to give people the ability to make their own decisions. And many people chose to do evil. But it does not mean God causes it or condones it.
(However, Calvinists would say that "by his own evil desire" in that verse means that God predetermined which desires people would have through the natures He assigns them. So if someone has the "unrepentant-sinner nature," then they can only desire to do evil all the time, which means they can only choose evil all the time. And Calvinists act like that's "having a choice, according to our own desires." But does that really sound like what the verse is saying?)
In no way do I think He causes children to be abused. He has a heart for children and gives them special provisions. Ephesians 6:4 says that fathers should not exasperate their children. Matthew 18:6 says that if someone causes a child of God’s to sin (and doesn’t abuse oftentimes cause people to turn away from God!?!), it would be better if they were drowned in the sea. And Matthew 18:10 tells us to not even look down on children because “their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.”
If people are not even supposed to look down on children because they are like the face of God, I would whole-heartedly say that we are not supposed to abuse them either. God has put up special protections around children and they are especially close to His heart. Abuse is NOT in His plan or Will for them.
Do you know how a Calvinist once replied to those verses when I brought them up? "Oh, those are about the 'elect' children only." They try so hard to make the Bible say something it doesn't say! So desperate to not have to take responsibility for their actions or for their decision about Jesus!
And for the record, I was never abused. So this isn't personal for me. But my heart breaks for those who were abused and who have to hear this kind of nonsense ... for those who sat in the audience that day at my church, with their painful emotional scars and their broken spirits, being forced to think, My God made that happen to me when I was a child? My God wanted that to happen? He caused that person to do that to me when I was too young to defend myself, for my good and to keep me humble? What kind of a God is that!?!
I think this kind of teaching is so damaging to Truth and God's character and people's faith, telling them that they have to trust that God knew what He was doing when He caused them to be repeatedly abused as a child, that it was for His glory and their own good and their spiritual growth, because He loves them and He wants the best for them and He knew what they needed to go through in order to be humbled.
No! NO! NOOO!!!
FRICKIN' NO!!!
It's one thing to encourage people to trust in a God who allows people to choose how they want to act, who even allows people to choose to do bad things He doesn't want them to do because it's part of allowing us to have free-will, a God who can and will bring healing and bring something good out of your pain if you let Him ... but it's another thing to tell people to trust in a God who orchestrated the abuse you went through, who wanted and planned for you to be abused, for His purposes, for His glory, because He knew you needed it to be humbled.
What the heck!?!
(Once again, I'm using stronger language in my head! My blood is freakin' boiling! Seriously ... what the heck!?!)
I think this kind of teaching goes against the very nature and heart of God. I think it misrepresents Him terribly and that it is detrimental to people’s faith.
If Calvinists want to believe and spread the idea that God causes sin and evil then that's their problem (one that they will give an account for when they stand before God).
But I will stand up for the God of the Bible, who is far different than Calvi-God!
The Bible's God loves all, died for all, and offers hope, healing, grace, forgiveness, and salvation to all. But Calvi-God causes evil and sin but punishes us for it, he only sent Jesus to die for the elect, and he predestines people to hell because it brings Him "glory." Two totally different Gods!
(Can you imagine being a Calvinist and standing before God one day, having to give an explanation for what you told others about Him and about Jesus's sacrifice? Terrifying! And I doubt "But I was trying to uphold Your sovereignty" is going to cut it.)
God doesn’t cause people to be evil or to sin, but He does allow people to make bad decisions and to do bad things. And evil things are part of a fallen world where demons run wild.
But even though God didn’t cause it, He can work it into something good. And He knew what was happening to someone who was abused as a child. He knew what that person chose to do to you. And I think His heart broke for you, that He wept for you. Because abuse is never His plan for children. And someday, the offender will stand before Him and give an account to Him for what they did.
But for you, God can help heal the pain – pain He never wanted for you, for humans, when He created the world perfect. He can bring good out of it, if you will let Him. He wants to heal you and to love you and to set you free. And someday, He will make all things right again!
But do not, for one second, buy that crap that God caused your abuse for your own good or for His loving purposes! That it was His "Plan A" for your life. That’s pure crap! (Goodness, am I getting fired about this one! It’s just so damaging and so not what God is like!)
No! Abuse and violence and hate was never God's Plan A. God's Plan A was a life of peace and joy and wholeness and safety and security in the Garden of Eden where we walked with Him and knew Him intimately. His Plan A was an eternity of peace and joy and fellowship with Him. Not abuse and fear and violence and hate and brokenness. God didn't introduce those things into this world, into our lives. We did, through disobedience and rebellion. We - with Satan's help - interfered with God's Plan A. Through our choices and actions.
But we didn't destroy it for good. We just postponed it.
God is still working His Plan A into history, into our lives. Through Jesus' death, we can find salvation from our sins and from our brokenness. God is still about wholeness and joy and life. He's about peace and forgiveness and healing, about using our sins and mistakes and pain for good and working it into His plans, if we will let Him.
But He lets us decide how to live and how to respond to Him. He lets us sin and disobey and hurt others and get bitter and self-destruct and reject Him and choose death.
But He is always beckoning to us, always offering us peace, joy, healing, wholeness, and eternal life with Him!
His real Plan A for our lives!
