Things My Calvinist Pastor Said #10: God Only Really Cares About His Glory
(This "Things My Calvinist Pastor Said" series is a breakdown on this much longer post: "We Left Our Church Because of Calvinism," which was written last year but updated July 2020. They are almost exact quotes. All memes were created with imgflip.)
10. "God is all about His glory and being famous. That is His main goal in everything. He loves Himself and worships Himself above all."
"God's main goal is to be famous among the nations" is my ex-pastor's stated reason for evangelizing. He wrote about how he never could get into missions work (and it's no wonder, because Calvinists don't really think they can have a real effect on whether someone believes or not, because they believe God predetermines it). But when he came to believe that God's main goal is to be famous, well, then he got excited about missions work. Finally, it had a purpose.
And so missions work, to my pastor, is not really about calling people to believe in Jesus (because that's predetermined, according to them) or about helping them start a relationship with Him; it's about "making God known, making Him famous among the nations." (Anyone can be famous ... for all the wrong reasons!)
Calvinists always talk of God's glory and fame. But they seldomly talk about His love for us or His desire for a relationship with us. Because to them, God is not a Relational Being (but in the Bible, He is). To them, He is little more than the Supreme Ruler who does whatever He wants and doesn't really care about us, other than for the glory and fame He gets for Himself through us. And if they can get you to "humbly submit" to (their view of) His sovereignty and His supreme pursuit of glory, then they can get you to buy whatever view of God they try to push on you. All they have to do to get you to fall in line like a good little Calvinist is say, "It's for God's glory. You don't think God can do whatever He wants for His glory!?! Who are you, little human, to speak up against God or to question His right to be God and to do whatever He wants!?!"
[I think this is why Calvinists over-emphasize God's self-love, because a God who loves Himself most can do whatever He wants for Himself and His glory, with little regard for His creation, even damning us to hell through no fault of our own, and we mere insignificant humans just have to accept it or else we aren't being humble!
But if we think He truly loves us and values us and cares about us (I'm not saying He loves us more than Himself, just a whole lot more than Calvinists teach), we might be tempted to think He would look out for us, do the best for our benefit, treat us fairly and justly and lovingly. And Calvinists can't have us thinking that - because it would put their whole idea of God creating people specifically for hell and only loving/saving a few people in jeopardy. But ... a God who loves Himself most and worships Himself above all doesn't have to be concerned with mere humans and can do whatever He wants to us if it brings Him glory!]
How else do you think they can get people to accept the idea that God predestines people to hell and only saves elected people, even though the Bible clearly, consistently teaches that Jesus died for all and anyone can be saved? That's right ... by saying "Predestining people to hell is for His glory! Who are you to question God's right to get glory in whatever way He wants!?!"
Yes, God's glory is tops and He is sovereign, just not in the way they say. And contrary to them, God really does care about us, love us, and want a relationship with us. It's His love that draws many people to Him. And yet, sadly, Calvinists leave this part out so often. So it's not just what they say that's a problem; it's also what they fail to say that's a problem! That destroys people's faith and hope!
Oh, I want to cry. I really want to cry about all this. It's heart-breaking to think of the damage Calvinism does to people's faith, to Jesus's sacrifice, to their view of God, their view of themselves, and their relationship with God. It breaks my heart. And I think it breaks God's heart too.
After we left the church, I began to realize part of the reason why my heart and soul were dying there (besides the lack of truly biblical teaching): I don't remember the pastor ever talking to us about how much God loves us, how He wants a relationship with us, how He cares about us.
The thing is, Calvinist preachers can't promise everyone in the audience that God loves them because they believe God only really loves and wants a relationship with the elect, and they don't know who the elect are in the audience. So they can't really preach on God's love and about how to grow your relationship with Him. (Also see: "Calvinists, Altar Calls, and Evangelism.")
And as you listen to the garbage they do preach, while missing out on the things your heart really needs to hear, your soul dies a little more each week.
People, you need to be very careful when listening to Calvinists, when trying to figure out what they believe. You have to listen between the lines. You have to listen for what they don't say. You have to remember that when they say one thing (the thing we can all agree on), there is often a secret thing they are hiding which contradicts or negates the first thing they said (such as, "People freely make choices, according to their natures, so God can hold us accountable for our choices" ... but the hidden part is "But God Himself determines which nature we get - the repentant one or the unrepentant one - and anyone who gets the unrepentant one can only want to sin and rebel all the time." How in the world do they call that "freely making choices that we can be held accountable for"!?!)
They will only tell you half the story, the good stuff, the stuff that forces you into "humbly accepting" whatever they tell you. They will manipulate you into accepting their views. They will hide or disguise the bad parts, believing you are not ready to accept them yet, while they suck you in more and more until you are ready to accept all of it. (See my "Parody of John Piper's 'How to Preach and Teach 'Calvinism.'")
I have read Calvinist theologians who have actually said this, who have instructed pastors to hide the hard parts of Calvinism at first, to slowly and strategically introduce it, to slowly "brainwash" people, one by one, into accepting it, such as by starting small-group studies where everyone reads Calvinist Indoctrination books like Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology. (Our Calvinist pastor does a "Grudem group study" with prominent people in the church. Calvinist-washing one brain at a time!)
I have read of Calvinist pastors who, when they are being interviewed by the search committee for a pastor's role at a new church, will deliberately hide the fact that they are a strong Calvinist, even when asked point-blank about it. They will evade the question and say something like "Well, I believe in the doctrines of grace, don't you? I believe God is sovereign, don't you?" But they will never reveal that they are 5-point or 7-point Calvinist because "it might scare off the people who are not yet ready to accept it." That is deceptive and wicked! (And who might they scare off anyway? If the elect are elect then they will come to the Lord with or without Calvinists "protecting" them from the bad parts of Calvinism, right? And if they are non-elect then they will never come, no matter what. So why exactly do Calvinists have to be careful about how and when they reveal the dark side of Calvinism? Do they really believe they have an effect on what Calvi-god has predestined?) And it is done with full knowledge that they are lying to the church, with the intention of sneaking in unnoticed and slowly, methodically "reforming" it with their Calvinism, even if the church didn't want it.
It's the slow "frog in the pot" trick, adding such a little bit of heat at a time that the people don't know they're boiling until it's too late.
I hate to say it, but you have to think of (dogmatic) Calvinists as calculated, strategically-deceptive, manipulative, schizophrenic, natural-born liars. Everything they say - unless they are bold enough to share all the bad stuff up front - is a cover for something else. Everything has a different meaning to it. They redefine words and phrases, use verses out of context, and have secondary layers of meaning for everything, even for Bible verses ... but you won't know it or realize it unless you know to look for it, unless you listen for it.
Such as, as I pointed out earlier, they say "God loves us," but they mean "God has two kinds of love. He loves the elect with a saving kind of love, but He loves the non-elect by caring for them while they are on earth, before damning them to hell." (Wow! If that's 'love,' I'd hate to see what hate looks like!)
They say "God gives grace to all," but they mean "God gives saving grace to the elect, and a 'kindness' kind of grace to the non-elect." And "unconditional grace" is "unconditional grace for only the elect." It's not grace for everyone, as it sounds. Or they might say "God offers saving grace to all and all people can find salvation," but they leave out "But only those predestined to accept it will accept it, and everyone else is predestined to reject it."
They say "God calls all people," but they mean "God calls the elect with an irresistible call that 'forces' them to come to Him, but He gives a general call to the non-elect that makes them accountable for not coming to Him, even though they can't respond to Him because He caused them to reject Him because He didn't predestine them for heaven. But, hey, we don't have to understand how it all works; we just have to accept it. Because it's 'in the Bible.'"
They say "Of course God doesn't force people to believe in Him; they willingly choose to believe in Him on their own. And if they reject Him, it's because that's what they wanted to choose," but they mean "People 'willingly' make the choices they desire to make, but God predetermines which desires we have: the desire to believe in Him/obey Him or the desire to reject Him/disobey Him. And we 'willingly' choose to do - and can only choose to do - what our God-given-desires cause us to want to do." (And they call that "not forcing, willingly choosing." Insanity!)
"God's main goal is to be famous among the nations" is my ex-pastor's stated reason for evangelizing. He wrote about how he never could get into missions work (and it's no wonder, because Calvinists don't really think they can have a real effect on whether someone believes or not, because they believe God predetermines it). But when he came to believe that God's main goal is to be famous, well, then he got excited about missions work. Finally, it had a purpose.
And so missions work, to my pastor, is not really about calling people to believe in Jesus (because that's predetermined, according to them) or about helping them start a relationship with Him; it's about "making God known, making Him famous among the nations." (Anyone can be famous ... for all the wrong reasons!)
Calvinists always talk of God's glory and fame. But they seldomly talk about His love for us or His desire for a relationship with us. Because to them, God is not a Relational Being (but in the Bible, He is). To them, He is little more than the Supreme Ruler who does whatever He wants and doesn't really care about us, other than for the glory and fame He gets for Himself through us. And if they can get you to "humbly submit" to (their view of) His sovereignty and His supreme pursuit of glory, then they can get you to buy whatever view of God they try to push on you. All they have to do to get you to fall in line like a good little Calvinist is say, "It's for God's glory. You don't think God can do whatever He wants for His glory!?! Who are you, little human, to speak up against God or to question His right to be God and to do whatever He wants!?!"
[I think this is why Calvinists over-emphasize God's self-love, because a God who loves Himself most can do whatever He wants for Himself and His glory, with little regard for His creation, even damning us to hell through no fault of our own, and we mere insignificant humans just have to accept it or else we aren't being humble!
But if we think He truly loves us and values us and cares about us (I'm not saying He loves us more than Himself, just a whole lot more than Calvinists teach), we might be tempted to think He would look out for us, do the best for our benefit, treat us fairly and justly and lovingly. And Calvinists can't have us thinking that - because it would put their whole idea of God creating people specifically for hell and only loving/saving a few people in jeopardy. But ... a God who loves Himself most and worships Himself above all doesn't have to be concerned with mere humans and can do whatever He wants to us if it brings Him glory!]
How else do you think they can get people to accept the idea that God predestines people to hell and only saves elected people, even though the Bible clearly, consistently teaches that Jesus died for all and anyone can be saved? That's right ... by saying "Predestining people to hell is for His glory! Who are you to question God's right to get glory in whatever way He wants!?!"
Yes, God's glory is tops and He is sovereign, just not in the way they say. And contrary to them, God really does care about us, love us, and want a relationship with us. It's His love that draws many people to Him. And yet, sadly, Calvinists leave this part out so often. So it's not just what they say that's a problem; it's also what they fail to say that's a problem! That destroys people's faith and hope!
Oh, I want to cry. I really want to cry about all this. It's heart-breaking to think of the damage Calvinism does to people's faith, to Jesus's sacrifice, to their view of God, their view of themselves, and their relationship with God. It breaks my heart. And I think it breaks God's heart too.
After we left the church, I began to realize part of the reason why my heart and soul were dying there (besides the lack of truly biblical teaching): I don't remember the pastor ever talking to us about how much God loves us, how He wants a relationship with us, how He cares about us.
The thing is, Calvinist preachers can't promise everyone in the audience that God loves them because they believe God only really loves and wants a relationship with the elect, and they don't know who the elect are in the audience. So they can't really preach on God's love and about how to grow your relationship with Him. (Also see: "Calvinists, Altar Calls, and Evangelism.")
And as you listen to the garbage they do preach, while missing out on the things your heart really needs to hear, your soul dies a little more each week.
People, you need to be very careful when listening to Calvinists, when trying to figure out what they believe. You have to listen between the lines. You have to listen for what they don't say. You have to remember that when they say one thing (the thing we can all agree on), there is often a secret thing they are hiding which contradicts or negates the first thing they said (such as, "People freely make choices, according to their natures, so God can hold us accountable for our choices" ... but the hidden part is "But God Himself determines which nature we get - the repentant one or the unrepentant one - and anyone who gets the unrepentant one can only want to sin and rebel all the time." How in the world do they call that "freely making choices that we can be held accountable for"!?!)
They will only tell you half the story, the good stuff, the stuff that forces you into "humbly accepting" whatever they tell you. They will manipulate you into accepting their views. They will hide or disguise the bad parts, believing you are not ready to accept them yet, while they suck you in more and more until you are ready to accept all of it. (See my "Parody of John Piper's 'How to Preach and Teach 'Calvinism.'")
I have read Calvinist theologians who have actually said this, who have instructed pastors to hide the hard parts of Calvinism at first, to slowly and strategically introduce it, to slowly "brainwash" people, one by one, into accepting it, such as by starting small-group studies where everyone reads Calvinist Indoctrination books like Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology. (Our Calvinist pastor does a "Grudem group study" with prominent people in the church. Calvinist-washing one brain at a time!)
I have read of Calvinist pastors who, when they are being interviewed by the search committee for a pastor's role at a new church, will deliberately hide the fact that they are a strong Calvinist, even when asked point-blank about it. They will evade the question and say something like "Well, I believe in the doctrines of grace, don't you? I believe God is sovereign, don't you?" But they will never reveal that they are 5-point or 7-point Calvinist because "it might scare off the people who are not yet ready to accept it." That is deceptive and wicked! (And who might they scare off anyway? If the elect are elect then they will come to the Lord with or without Calvinists "protecting" them from the bad parts of Calvinism, right? And if they are non-elect then they will never come, no matter what. So why exactly do Calvinists have to be careful about how and when they reveal the dark side of Calvinism? Do they really believe they have an effect on what Calvi-god has predestined?) And it is done with full knowledge that they are lying to the church, with the intention of sneaking in unnoticed and slowly, methodically "reforming" it with their Calvinism, even if the church didn't want it.
It's the slow "frog in the pot" trick, adding such a little bit of heat at a time that the people don't know they're boiling until it's too late.
I hate to say it, but you have to think of (dogmatic) Calvinists as calculated, strategically-deceptive, manipulative, schizophrenic, natural-born liars. Everything they say - unless they are bold enough to share all the bad stuff up front - is a cover for something else. Everything has a different meaning to it. They redefine words and phrases, use verses out of context, and have secondary layers of meaning for everything, even for Bible verses ... but you won't know it or realize it unless you know to look for it, unless you listen for it.
Such as, as I pointed out earlier, they say "God loves us," but they mean "God has two kinds of love. He loves the elect with a saving kind of love, but He loves the non-elect by caring for them while they are on earth, before damning them to hell." (Wow! If that's 'love,' I'd hate to see what hate looks like!)
They say "God gives grace to all," but they mean "God gives saving grace to the elect, and a 'kindness' kind of grace to the non-elect." And "unconditional grace" is "unconditional grace for only the elect." It's not grace for everyone, as it sounds. Or they might say "God offers saving grace to all and all people can find salvation," but they leave out "But only those predestined to accept it will accept it, and everyone else is predestined to reject it."
They say "God calls all people," but they mean "God calls the elect with an irresistible call that 'forces' them to come to Him, but He gives a general call to the non-elect that makes them accountable for not coming to Him, even though they can't respond to Him because He caused them to reject Him because He didn't predestine them for heaven. But, hey, we don't have to understand how it all works; we just have to accept it. Because it's 'in the Bible.'"
They say "Of course God doesn't force people to believe in Him; they willingly choose to believe in Him on their own. And if they reject Him, it's because that's what they wanted to choose," but they mean "People 'willingly' make the choices they desire to make, but God predetermines which desires we have: the desire to believe in Him/obey Him or the desire to reject Him/disobey Him. And we 'willingly' choose to do - and can only choose to do - what our God-given-desires cause us to want to do." (And they call that "not forcing, willingly choosing." Insanity!)
They say "God doesn't really predestine people for hell," but they mean "God just picked those He predestined for heaven, and everyone else was 'passed over,' meaning that they will go to hell by default. But God didn't really 'predestine' them for hell; He just didn't predestine them for heaven."
Calvinism is nonsense! It is illogical, round-and-round, contradictory, manipulative nonsense! (Also see "Why Is Calvinism So Dangerous?") But if you don't know to suspect it, you won't notice it. You'll trust what they tell you that you have to believe. And you'll just think there's something wrong with you or your faith or your level of humility if you have trouble accepting it.
This is how Calvinism gets you! (I'm going to go cry now.)
Calvinism is nonsense! It is illogical, round-and-round, contradictory, manipulative nonsense! (Also see "Why Is Calvinism So Dangerous?") But if you don't know to suspect it, you won't notice it. You'll trust what they tell you that you have to believe. And you'll just think there's something wrong with you or your faith or your level of humility if you have trouble accepting it.
This is how Calvinism gets you! (I'm going to go cry now.)
