UGW #2: Cause vs. Allow
Understanding God's Will #2:
Well, what about verses like Proverbs 16:4: “The Lord works out everything for his own end ... ” Doesn’t this mean that He causes everything that happens for His own reasons?
I don’t think that’s what it means. It doesn’t say He causes everything that happens for His own reasons; it says He works them out for His own ends. (I’ll break this down further in later posts.) God has an end goal, and He knows how to take whatever we do and work it together to reach that end. But this doesn’t necessarily mean that He causes us to do what we do for His own reasons (because if He did then He would be responsible for our sins, not us) or that He causes the tragedies that we face for a reason.
Now keep in mind as you read this series that I am not challenging the whole “Everything happens for a reason” idea for those who face trials in the quiet, optimistic assurance that there is some deep, unknown reason for their trial or tragedy. For those who find hope in that idea. I believe that they already have a secure faith in the fact that God will use that tragedy or heartache for good. And they are not overly concerned about the “did He cause it or did He just allow it to happen” debate. They just know that good will come out of it.
I am trying to clarify the “cause vs. allow” debate for those who doubt God or are bitter or angry at Him for the tragedy and pain in their lives. Those who don’t know how a good God could “cause” such bad stuff. Those who aren’t sure they can trust a God like that.
And I am clarifying this for those who believe in (who have been misled by) Calvinism, in the theology that says God is the one who ultimately preplanned and caused all the bad things that happen, even people's sin and unbelief, and yet then He turns around and punishes people for it. This has huge impacts on how we view God, on our faith, on what we think of His character and whether He is trustworthy or not.
And so this is why I want to differentiate between “cause or allow” in the coming questions, to show you that God can be trusted indeed, that He doesn't preplan/cause evil but He can put it to good use, that we make real choices and God holds us accountable for them, not that God causes us to choose what we do and then punishes us for doing what He caused us to do. Your understanding of this issue will have drastic consequences on your faith, on your view of God and the Gospel.
And I am also talking to those who use “Everything happens for a reason” to excuse themselves of any responsibility when a choice of theirs causes a certain consequence. If we cause bad things to happen by our choices, we cannot shrug it off as “God’s Will” or say that He caused us to do it for a reason. We are responsible for our behavior and for the consequences.
But we can trust that whatever bad things come into our lives, by our own doing or not, God will take all that “junk” and work it into something good, something that serves His purposes. And He can tell how to best use this “junk” because He sees all of history before it happens. I don’t necessarily think He alters His plans to incorporate our “bad stuff,” so much as He already knew how He’d use it, because He knew it was coming before we even did.
So to sum up what I'm trying to say here: I think it's generally more accurate to say that, yes, sometimes God causes things (but never sin, evil, or unbelief, never the things He commands us not to do), but most other things God simply allows to happen (life events, our choices, natural events, etc.) because He has given us and nature and evil a certain amount of leeway to affect things, to make choices, to create consequences, etc. But whatever happens, God is watching over it all and knows how to turn it into something good. And this is why He can be trusted, because He doesn't cause the sin and evil, He just knows how to turn it into something good.
It makes a huge difference in our trust and faith and obedience if we believe it's "cause" instead of "allow," which is why it's worth the time of sorting this out in our minds.
[To explain it more clearly and fully: The reason Calvinists believe it's "cause" is because they misunderstand what it means that God is sovereign.
To them, sovereign has to mean that God preplans, causes, controls all that happens - every tiny detail, from a speck of dust in the air to the decisions men make, even to sin or rebel against Him. Because if God didn't actively control everything, according to them, then He wouldn't be God. (For them, it's not enough for God to be in control, as in "over and above all, managing all that happens, having the final say in all." NO! For them, God has to be actively controlling all, not just in control over all. And there is a big difference!)
And they try to rationalize this and to make it sound good (and to shut up opposition) by saying that God causes things like sin and rebellion for His glory. (Who's gonna argue with them when they claim it's "for God's glory"? Manipulation at its finest!) They believe that God is ultimately glorified by our sins and wickedness. And it's not just that He can get glory from any bad situation or any sin we choose to commit; it's that He specifically preplanned and caused each evil act we do - giving us no choice to do otherwise - in order to get glory from it.
Think about what that says about God's character for one moment!
In fact, Calvinists believe God deliberately created most people with the sole purpose of hating them, causing them to be unbelievers, and putting them in hell ... because it brings Him glory.
How backwards and twisted is this!?!
What damage it does to God's character and the Gospel!
And how then, may I ask, is God any different from Satan ... if God hates people, wants people to sin, wants people in hell, causes people to sin, is glorified by evil, etc.!?!
Calvi-god is simply Satan in disguise.
But ... this is not what sovereign really means. Sovereign doesn't mean "God has to preplan, cause, control everything or else He's not God." That's simply mankind - Calvinists - teling God how He has to be and has to act in order to be God. (And yet, that's how they get you - by saying, "But you believe God is sovereign, don't you? Are you going to deny that God is sovereign? Do you think you are above God?" And people just shut up, stop questioning them, and fall in line. Because who is going to argue with the idea of God being sovereign? Yet no one ever stops to question their definition of sovereign.)
But God Himself shows us in His Word - through biblical examples and verses - how He chooses to act and be. You see ... sovereign is about the position someone holds. It's about being in the position of supreme authority, under the control of no one else, being accountable to no one else, and able to make all final decisions. It's about being the Top Dog. About having all the power.
But it's NOT about how He has to use His power. That is going above and beyond the definition of sovereign. God has all the power, the position of authority, but we don't get to decide how He must use His power and position of authority. We don't get to decide that if He doesn't use it the way we say He should then He must not really be God. But this is what Calvinists do. And it is a huge detriment to their theology, to God's character, to Jesus's sacrifice, to the Gospel message, and to people's faith.
God Himself has decided how to use His power and exercise His authority.
And He has chosen - as evidenced all throughout His Word - to give mankind a certain level of freedom. True freedom. The freedom to make our own decisions (and face the consequences). He has chosen to give mankind and Satan certain boundaries, but freedom to act within those boundaries. He has chosen ... amazingly enough ... to allow His own creation to reject Him.
Goodness gracious, is that incredible or what!?!
The all-powerful Creator of the universe has chosen to restrain His use of power so that He could give men the right to make decisions, to have a real effect on what happens in life, in eternity. Because He wants people to be able to choose to love and obey Him, not to be forced to. God has chosen to work His plans out with and through mankind, not to control every decision we make.
That is so humbling to me! And it makes me love Him even more!
If you read your Bible carefully, without Calvinist glasses on, you can see for yourself multitudes of examples of how God chooses to be and act, how He chooses to exercise His power and sovereignty.
And here are a few examples that show how wrong Calvinism is, that show how God chooses to restrain His use of power and His ability to control us, how He has decided to give men a certain level of freedom:
Hosea 8:4: “They set up kings without my [God’s] consent; they choose princes without my approval.” (God’s own words. How is this possible if He plans all things, causes all things, and decides what people decide? According to Calvinism, EVERYTHING is done according to God’s consent and approval (pre-planning and causing). So … is God lying in this verse?)
Well, what about verses like Proverbs 16:4: “The Lord works out everything for his own end ... ” Doesn’t this mean that He causes everything that happens for His own reasons?
I don’t think that’s what it means. It doesn’t say He causes everything that happens for His own reasons; it says He works them out for His own ends. (I’ll break this down further in later posts.) God has an end goal, and He knows how to take whatever we do and work it together to reach that end. But this doesn’t necessarily mean that He causes us to do what we do for His own reasons (because if He did then He would be responsible for our sins, not us) or that He causes the tragedies that we face for a reason.
Now keep in mind as you read this series that I am not challenging the whole “Everything happens for a reason” idea for those who face trials in the quiet, optimistic assurance that there is some deep, unknown reason for their trial or tragedy. For those who find hope in that idea. I believe that they already have a secure faith in the fact that God will use that tragedy or heartache for good. And they are not overly concerned about the “did He cause it or did He just allow it to happen” debate. They just know that good will come out of it.
I am trying to clarify the “cause vs. allow” debate for those who doubt God or are bitter or angry at Him for the tragedy and pain in their lives. Those who don’t know how a good God could “cause” such bad stuff. Those who aren’t sure they can trust a God like that.
And I am clarifying this for those who believe in (who have been misled by) Calvinism, in the theology that says God is the one who ultimately preplanned and caused all the bad things that happen, even people's sin and unbelief, and yet then He turns around and punishes people for it. This has huge impacts on how we view God, on our faith, on what we think of His character and whether He is trustworthy or not.
And so this is why I want to differentiate between “cause or allow” in the coming questions, to show you that God can be trusted indeed, that He doesn't preplan/cause evil but He can put it to good use, that we make real choices and God holds us accountable for them, not that God causes us to choose what we do and then punishes us for doing what He caused us to do. Your understanding of this issue will have drastic consequences on your faith, on your view of God and the Gospel.
And I am also talking to those who use “Everything happens for a reason” to excuse themselves of any responsibility when a choice of theirs causes a certain consequence. If we cause bad things to happen by our choices, we cannot shrug it off as “God’s Will” or say that He caused us to do it for a reason. We are responsible for our behavior and for the consequences.
But we can trust that whatever bad things come into our lives, by our own doing or not, God will take all that “junk” and work it into something good, something that serves His purposes. And He can tell how to best use this “junk” because He sees all of history before it happens. I don’t necessarily think He alters His plans to incorporate our “bad stuff,” so much as He already knew how He’d use it, because He knew it was coming before we even did.
So to sum up what I'm trying to say here: I think it's generally more accurate to say that, yes, sometimes God causes things (but never sin, evil, or unbelief, never the things He commands us not to do), but most other things God simply allows to happen (life events, our choices, natural events, etc.) because He has given us and nature and evil a certain amount of leeway to affect things, to make choices, to create consequences, etc. But whatever happens, God is watching over it all and knows how to turn it into something good. And this is why He can be trusted, because He doesn't cause the sin and evil, He just knows how to turn it into something good.
It makes a huge difference in our trust and faith and obedience if we believe it's "cause" instead of "allow," which is why it's worth the time of sorting this out in our minds.
[To explain it more clearly and fully: The reason Calvinists believe it's "cause" is because they misunderstand what it means that God is sovereign.
To them, sovereign has to mean that God preplans, causes, controls all that happens - every tiny detail, from a speck of dust in the air to the decisions men make, even to sin or rebel against Him. Because if God didn't actively control everything, according to them, then He wouldn't be God. (For them, it's not enough for God to be in control, as in "over and above all, managing all that happens, having the final say in all." NO! For them, God has to be actively controlling all, not just in control over all. And there is a big difference!)
And they try to rationalize this and to make it sound good (and to shut up opposition) by saying that God causes things like sin and rebellion for His glory. (Who's gonna argue with them when they claim it's "for God's glory"? Manipulation at its finest!) They believe that God is ultimately glorified by our sins and wickedness. And it's not just that He can get glory from any bad situation or any sin we choose to commit; it's that He specifically preplanned and caused each evil act we do - giving us no choice to do otherwise - in order to get glory from it.
Think about what that says about God's character for one moment!
In fact, Calvinists believe God deliberately created most people with the sole purpose of hating them, causing them to be unbelievers, and putting them in hell ... because it brings Him glory.
How backwards and twisted is this!?!
What damage it does to God's character and the Gospel!
And how then, may I ask, is God any different from Satan ... if God hates people, wants people to sin, wants people in hell, causes people to sin, is glorified by evil, etc.!?!
Calvi-god is simply Satan in disguise.
But ... this is not what sovereign really means. Sovereign doesn't mean "God has to preplan, cause, control everything or else He's not God." That's simply mankind - Calvinists - teling God how He has to be and has to act in order to be God. (And yet, that's how they get you - by saying, "But you believe God is sovereign, don't you? Are you going to deny that God is sovereign? Do you think you are above God?" And people just shut up, stop questioning them, and fall in line. Because who is going to argue with the idea of God being sovereign? Yet no one ever stops to question their definition of sovereign.)
But God Himself shows us in His Word - through biblical examples and verses - how He chooses to act and be. You see ... sovereign is about the position someone holds. It's about being in the position of supreme authority, under the control of no one else, being accountable to no one else, and able to make all final decisions. It's about being the Top Dog. About having all the power.
But it's NOT about how He has to use His power. That is going above and beyond the definition of sovereign. God has all the power, the position of authority, but we don't get to decide how He must use His power and position of authority. We don't get to decide that if He doesn't use it the way we say He should then He must not really be God. But this is what Calvinists do. And it is a huge detriment to their theology, to God's character, to Jesus's sacrifice, to the Gospel message, and to people's faith.
God Himself has decided how to use His power and exercise His authority.
And He has chosen - as evidenced all throughout His Word - to give mankind a certain level of freedom. True freedom. The freedom to make our own decisions (and face the consequences). He has chosen to give mankind and Satan certain boundaries, but freedom to act within those boundaries. He has chosen ... amazingly enough ... to allow His own creation to reject Him.
Goodness gracious, is that incredible or what!?!
The all-powerful Creator of the universe has chosen to restrain His use of power so that He could give men the right to make decisions, to have a real effect on what happens in life, in eternity. Because He wants people to be able to choose to love and obey Him, not to be forced to. God has chosen to work His plans out with and through mankind, not to control every decision we make.
That is so humbling to me! And it makes me love Him even more!
If you read your Bible carefully, without Calvinist glasses on, you can see for yourself multitudes of examples of how God chooses to be and act, how He chooses to exercise His power and sovereignty.
And here are a few examples that show how wrong Calvinism is, that show how God chooses to restrain His use of power and His ability to control us, how He has decided to give men a certain level of freedom:
Hosea 8:4: “They set up kings without my [God’s] consent; they choose princes without my approval.” (God’s own words. How is this possible if He plans all things, causes all things, and decides what people decide? According to Calvinism, EVERYTHING is done according to God’s consent and approval (pre-planning and causing). So … is God lying in this verse?)
Ezekiel 13:22 (KJV): "Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad ..." And the CSB version puts it this way: "Because you have disheartened the righteous person with lies (when I intended no distress)..." (In Calvinism, God would be the one who preplanned and ultimately caused people to lie to the righteous people. He would have preplanned/intended to cause the righteous people to be disheartened, contradicting His claim that He never intended to do that. And so either God lies or Calvinism lies. Which one do you think it is?)
Acts 14:16: “In the past, [God] let nations go their own way.” (How can He "let" people do anything if He is the cause/controller of everything? And if He is the cause of all - for His glory - why would He be giving credit to the nations for the decisions they made? When He did it for His glory?)
Isaiah 30:1: “‘Woe to the obstinate children,’ declares the Lord, ‘to those who carry out plans that are not mine …'” (What’s this I hear!?! “Plans that are not Mine”!?! Impossible, for all plans are His plans, according to the Calvinist. So ... is God lying then, pretending He didn't plan what they did when He really did? Acting like it's their choice when He preplanned it all along and caused it to happen?)
1 John 2:22: “Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ.” (If God causes men to deny that Jesus is Christ, wouldn’t that make God complicit in the lie? A liar spreading lies?)
Matthew 18:6: “If anyone causes one of these little ones – those who believe in me – to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.” (Umm … if Calvinism is true, then isn’t God the one who caused the little ones to stumble? Should He tie a millstone around His own neck then?)
Jeremiah 19:5: “They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal - something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” (Once again, God’s own words. How can God cause someone to decide to do something that God Himself says never entered His mind?)
Matthew 23:37: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing." (If Calvinism is true, God caused them to be unwilling. Why then would Jesus mourn over it? Especially if He supposedly caused their rebellion for His glory?)
John 7:17: "If anyone chooses to do God's will ..." (Calvinism makes a mockery of this verse because, according to them, we can only "choose" to obey if God predestined and causes us to obey. How exactly is that "choice"? What a joke! Being able to "choose" to do only that which God preplanned, causes, controls you to do, and you couldn't have made any other choice at all.)
Joshua 24:15: "But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve ..." (Once again, a mockery and a joke! If God controls your every thought and choice, then there is no "choosing"! Calvinism makes the whole Bible, the whole Gospel message, unnecessary and superfluous. Because the only people that will become believers, according to Calvinism, are those God predestined to become believers. And they will become believers no matter what. In fact, in Calvinism, the Holy Spirit has to "wake them up" before they can even understand the Word, the Gospel message. So essentially, they are saved and filled with the Holy Spirit before they can understand or respond to the Word, the Truth. What purpose then does the Word really serve, if the elect are chosen before they ever hear it, are destined to be saved no matter what, and can only understand it after they are filled with the Holy Spirit? The Word, the Gospel message, in this case, is just a formality. An afterthought.)
Job 38:11: "Who shut up the sea behind doors when it burst forth from the womb... when I fixed limits for it and set its doors and bars in place, when I said, 'This far you may come and no farther; here is where your proud waves halt.'?" (This is God Himself talking to Job. But if God controls every tiny wave of every body of water, why would He need to give it "limits," boundaries? Limits and boundaries mean that there is a line you can't cross but that there is freedom within those lines. This is how God has chosen to order things!)
Want one more example of that? "Then God said ... "... let them [mankind] rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." (Genesis 1:26. God Himself has chosen to give His creation a certain amount of dominion, of freedom, of free-will. And the Bible shows this again and again. THIS is where I get my definition of sovereignty from! NOT by deciding for myself that God MUST always be preplanning, causing, controlling everything all the time or else He's not God. Calvinism is mankind telling God how God has to be in order to be God!)
Calvinism cannot explain verses like these (and these are just a few!) in any rational, logical ways that keeps God’s character intact and that maintains the truth found in Scripture as a whole. But they keep trying! Doing more and more damage to God’s character and Gospel Truth!
(And I'm not saying that God doesn't sometimes preplan/cause/control things. Yes, sometimes God does do that. But He NEVER preplans or causes sin. Because that would totally destroy His holy, good, righteous, just character. He can and does allow us to sin and make evil choices. And He can and does put us in situations that force us to make our choices. But He doesn't control us or cause us to choose evil or sin. But if we do choose to be evil and to sin, He can and does work it into His plans for good.)]
For this Anti-Calvinist Rant blog, I am also adding this repost of Calvinist Bad Logic #5: We Can Trust A Controlling God:
If that’s God “in control,” I’d hate to see God out of control!
The problem is not with God and His sovereignty. The problem is with the Calvinist view of God’s control, of His sovereignty. The Calvinist assumes that in order for God to be in control, He has to always be controlling/causing everything all the time. Or else He’s not God, according to their ideas of how God should be.
But it’s they who put their own presuppositions on God, who box Him in to how they think He has to be in order to be God.
But the Bible shows us a God who is “in control” and sovereign in a very different way. The God of the Bible has chosen to work in cooperation with mankind in various ways. He has chosen to give us real choices and to work our real decisions into His plans. He sometimes causes things to happen (but never sin or evil) and sometimes simply allows things to happen, but He is over and above it all, knowing how to work all things (even our choices, our self-chosen obedience or disobedience) into His plans.
Calvi-god is a small, weak god who can’t handle any other factors than what he himself causes. But the God of the Bible is a very BIG, wise God who can work all things together for good, even things He doesn’t cause, the things He allows us to do.
[My note: I agree with TS00 on Calvinist pastors hiding what they really believe. Our new pastor- a dogmatic Calvinist - was very careful to slowly, bit by bit, drip his Calvinism into sermons over the course of years, making sure to never use the word "Calvinism."]
(For all the posts in the "Calvinist Bad Logic" series, see the "Intro ..." Or look for "'Calvinist Bad Logic' Series" in the labels on the side-bar. Or find the whole series in one post, "When Calvinism's 'Bad Logic' Traps Good Christians.")
And so I ask, Can you see why differentiating between "cause" and "allow" is so important?
God's character and the truth and message of the Gospel is on the line!
For the posts in this series, see the "Understanding God's Will" label in the sidebar (or find the original series, without the Calvinism info, by clicking here).
Acts 14:16: “In the past, [God] let nations go their own way.” (How can He "let" people do anything if He is the cause/controller of everything? And if He is the cause of all - for His glory - why would He be giving credit to the nations for the decisions they made? When He did it for His glory?)
Isaiah 30:1: “‘Woe to the obstinate children,’ declares the Lord, ‘to those who carry out plans that are not mine …'” (What’s this I hear!?! “Plans that are not Mine”!?! Impossible, for all plans are His plans, according to the Calvinist. So ... is God lying then, pretending He didn't plan what they did when He really did? Acting like it's their choice when He preplanned it all along and caused it to happen?)
1 John 2:22: “Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ.” (If God causes men to deny that Jesus is Christ, wouldn’t that make God complicit in the lie? A liar spreading lies?)
Matthew 18:6: “If anyone causes one of these little ones – those who believe in me – to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.” (Umm … if Calvinism is true, then isn’t God the one who caused the little ones to stumble? Should He tie a millstone around His own neck then?)
Jeremiah 19:5: “They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal - something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” (Once again, God’s own words. How can God cause someone to decide to do something that God Himself says never entered His mind?)
Matthew 23:37: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing." (If Calvinism is true, God caused them to be unwilling. Why then would Jesus mourn over it? Especially if He supposedly caused their rebellion for His glory?)
John 7:17: "If anyone chooses to do God's will ..." (Calvinism makes a mockery of this verse because, according to them, we can only "choose" to obey if God predestined and causes us to obey. How exactly is that "choice"? What a joke! Being able to "choose" to do only that which God preplanned, causes, controls you to do, and you couldn't have made any other choice at all.)
Joshua 24:15: "But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve ..." (Once again, a mockery and a joke! If God controls your every thought and choice, then there is no "choosing"! Calvinism makes the whole Bible, the whole Gospel message, unnecessary and superfluous. Because the only people that will become believers, according to Calvinism, are those God predestined to become believers. And they will become believers no matter what. In fact, in Calvinism, the Holy Spirit has to "wake them up" before they can even understand the Word, the Gospel message. So essentially, they are saved and filled with the Holy Spirit before they can understand or respond to the Word, the Truth. What purpose then does the Word really serve, if the elect are chosen before they ever hear it, are destined to be saved no matter what, and can only understand it after they are filled with the Holy Spirit? The Word, the Gospel message, in this case, is just a formality. An afterthought.)
Job 38:11: "Who shut up the sea behind doors when it burst forth from the womb... when I fixed limits for it and set its doors and bars in place, when I said, 'This far you may come and no farther; here is where your proud waves halt.'?" (This is God Himself talking to Job. But if God controls every tiny wave of every body of water, why would He need to give it "limits," boundaries? Limits and boundaries mean that there is a line you can't cross but that there is freedom within those lines. This is how God has chosen to order things!)
Want one more example of that? "Then God said ... "... let them [mankind] rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." (Genesis 1:26. God Himself has chosen to give His creation a certain amount of dominion, of freedom, of free-will. And the Bible shows this again and again. THIS is where I get my definition of sovereignty from! NOT by deciding for myself that God MUST always be preplanning, causing, controlling everything all the time or else He's not God. Calvinism is mankind telling God how God has to be in order to be God!)
Calvinism cannot explain verses like these (and these are just a few!) in any rational, logical ways that keeps God’s character intact and that maintains the truth found in Scripture as a whole. But they keep trying! Doing more and more damage to God’s character and Gospel Truth!
(And I'm not saying that God doesn't sometimes preplan/cause/control things. Yes, sometimes God does do that. But He NEVER preplans or causes sin. Because that would totally destroy His holy, good, righteous, just character. He can and does allow us to sin and make evil choices. And He can and does put us in situations that force us to make our choices. But He doesn't control us or cause us to choose evil or sin. But if we do choose to be evil and to sin, He can and does work it into His plans for good.)]
For this Anti-Calvinist Rant blog, I am also adding this repost of Calvinist Bad Logic #5: We Can Trust A Controlling God:
A Calvinist says:
“That being said ... why would anyone trust in God who isn’t in control of all things that come to pass, the only way to have unreserved faith without doubt is to pray, hope and believe in God who is on the throne.”
[My note: Of course, all Christians believe that God is on the throne. But what he means - what Calvinists mean - is "Why would anyone trust a God who isn't actively controlling all things?" Like Calvinist James White basically says in this clip, we supposedly can trust and have faith only if we know that God is controlling all those evil things, such as child rape. But if they happen without God causing them, then they are supposedly meaningless evils and we would be left in despair knowing that meaningless evils can happen outside of God's "control."
Umm ... yeah ... so instead it's SO MUCH BETTER to believe that we have a God who actively causes us to sin in ways He forbids and that He punishes us for those sins He causes than to think that He simply allows people to make their own bad choices!?! And that's the kind of God we are supposed to trust, love, and want to spend eternity with!?! Frickin' insane!
Calvinism: "I know there's horrible abuses going on this world and murders and evil, but at least you can take comfort in knowing that God caused them to happen. But that He'll punish them for it. We don’t have to understand it or like it; we just have to accept it. Now, let's praise Him for His goodness and faithfulness, and let’s go out there and try to be more like Him!"
[My note: Of course, all Christians believe that God is on the throne. But what he means - what Calvinists mean - is "Why would anyone trust a God who isn't actively controlling all things?" Like Calvinist James White basically says in this clip, we supposedly can trust and have faith only if we know that God is controlling all those evil things, such as child rape. But if they happen without God causing them, then they are supposedly meaningless evils and we would be left in despair knowing that meaningless evils can happen outside of God's "control."
Umm ... yeah ... so instead it's SO MUCH BETTER to believe that we have a God who actively causes us to sin in ways He forbids and that He punishes us for those sins He causes than to think that He simply allows people to make their own bad choices!?! And that's the kind of God we are supposed to trust, love, and want to spend eternity with!?! Frickin' insane!
Calvinism: "I know there's horrible abuses going on this world and murders and evil, but at least you can take comfort in knowing that God caused them to happen. But that He'll punish them for it. We don’t have to understand it or like it; we just have to accept it. Now, let's praise Him for His goodness and faithfulness, and let’s go out there and try to be more like Him!"
Not to mention that, ironically, in Calvinism, the only way a person can have "unreserved faith without doubt" is if God causes them to have it. In Calvinism, nothing we do can affect the level or kind of faith we have - or even whether or not we have faith to begin with - because only God decides and controls that. If we have doubts or weak faith, it's because God causes us to have doubts and weak faith, and there's nothing we can do about it. If we fail to pray, it's because God preplanned and caused it. Calvinism shoots itself in the foot, negating or compromising every instruction or bit of advice it gives.]
My reply to that Calvinist comment:
I would say “How can anyone trust Calvi-god when he lies about what his true will is, causes people to sin and to do the opposite of what he commands, gives some people evanescent grace (fake salvation) so that he can more strongly damn them to hell, pretends to offer salvation to all and to give us a choice about it but then denies most people the chance to be saved, makes it sound like Jesus’s death paid for all sins when Calvi-Jesus really just died for a few people, tells us to seek him and believe in him when he knows we can’t seek him or believe in him unless he causes us to, creates most people specifically for hell because it somehow highlights his justice, grace, and love, etc.?”
If that’s God “in control,” I’d hate to see God out of control!
The problem is not with God and His sovereignty. The problem is with the Calvinist view of God’s control, of His sovereignty. The Calvinist assumes that in order for God to be in control, He has to always be controlling/causing everything all the time. Or else He’s not God, according to their ideas of how God should be.
But it’s they who put their own presuppositions on God, who box Him in to how they think He has to be in order to be God.
But the Bible shows us a God who is “in control” and sovereign in a very different way. The God of the Bible has chosen to work in cooperation with mankind in various ways. He has chosen to give us real choices and to work our real decisions into His plans. He sometimes causes things to happen (but never sin or evil) and sometimes simply allows things to happen, but He is over and above it all, knowing how to work all things (even our choices, our self-chosen obedience or disobedience) into His plans.
Calvi-god is a small, weak god who can’t handle any other factors than what he himself causes. But the God of the Bible is a very BIG, wise God who can work all things together for good, even things He doesn’t cause, the things He allows us to do.
And one more repost from that "Calvinist Bad Logic" series:
When it comes to the idea of God preplanning (predestining) everything that happens, Calvinists love to accuse non-Calvinists of being in the same boat as them.
They'll say, "Well, you believe that God is omniscient, right? That He knew everything that would happen, right? And so since He didn't stop the bad things even though He knew they'd happen, then you also have to believe that God 'ordained' these bad things to happen, unless you are going to deny His omniscience. (Note: When a Calvinist says "ordained" or "decreed" or "destined," they essentially mean "preplanned and caused it to happen," not just "foreknew it would happen and allowed it.") If, in His omniscience, He knew it would happen and didn’t stop it, it’s the same thing as wanting it to happen and planning it to happen, right!?! Besides, what's the difference whether God planned the bad things to happen or simply knew the bad things would happen but didn't stop them? Due to His omniscience, the end results are still the same. So we are in the same boat, essentially believing the same thing!"
But I say … Nonsense and hogwash!
And notice how they accuse you of denying God’s omniscience if you don’t see things their way! Calvinists classically resort to “Well, Calvinism is the Gospel! And so if you disagree with Calvinism, it’s because you don’t like Truth and can’t stand the idea of God being sovereign over all.”
(Really!?! Because I thought that if I disagreed with Calvinism it was because Calvi-god caused me to disagree with Calvinism, for his glory! I thought that he causes everything that happens for his glory, and that me disagreeing with Calvinism is as equally glorifying to him as you agreeing with Calvinism. So we are both doing exactly what Calvi-god wanted/preplanned/caused us to do, for his glory! So, yeah, I guess you're right ... we are in the same boat!)
This is a comment someone made at Soteriology 101: “If God destines something to an end [note: Calvinists mean "preplanned/caused it to happen"] or permits it (a.k.a. "allows it") and sustains it to the same end, what is the difference?”
My reply to that comment:
What’s the difference between a God who allows someone to make their own decision to rape and kill, and who punishes them for their choice … and a God who causes someone to rape and kill, with no option to do anything different, but who then punishes that person for raping and killing?
What’s the difference between a God who genuinely offers salvation to all people, who lets us make our choice about if we want Him in our lives or not, and allows us to face the consequences of our choice … and a God who predestines our eternities and choices, who causes unbelievers to be unbelievers, who never gives unbelievers a chance to seek/find Him or to find salvation, and who then punishes unbelievers in hell for being the unbelievers He caused them to be?
If you can’t see a difference, what does that say about your view of God and the Gospel? Either that, or you’re just not thinking about it carefully enough.
On a slightly different note, focusing on the elect’s response to the “offer” of salvation, a dogmatic Calvinist says this: “The offer becomes irresistible to the elect because even though there could be a possibility for them to resist for a time using the will, but the final end result is that the Elect cannot really resist.”
My reply to that comment:
Does this make sense to anyone? The elect can resist, but not really!?! The “irresistible” offer is resistible for a time, but not really!?!
The more Calvinists try to defend their theology, the more nonsense they come up with that they need to defend! The only way out of that ever-deepening hole is to toss out the Calvinism, take off the Calvinist glasses, and read the Word, as it was written, in context, as God intended it.
TS00 (a fellow anti-Calvinist whose comments I love) says this:
Just in case anyone missed the obvious reasons Calvinists need to smuggle human autonomy (free-will, the ability to choose) into their belief system when no one is looking, I thought I would spell out the most obvious one: because their system does not hold up under actual reality.
The so-called ‘elect’ can and do resist God’s call upon them at various times. They may resist his call and continue to live in sin for years before becoming saved. Or they may continue to dabble in their favorite sins, despite the obvious fact that God would prefer that his elect not sin.
As much as Calvinists like to claim that God ordains and predetermines whatsoever comes to pass, they don’t much like to get into the details. Like, why God (Calvi-god, who is not the same as the God of the Bible) predetermined this elect pastor to cheat on his elect wife, or that elect parent’s child to get cancer, or some elect child’s father to sexually abuse her. It gets pretty dicey when it comes to specifically spelling out the horrific sins and crimes God supposedly ordained and predetermined to come to pass.
‘Well, non-Calvinists have the same problem’, Calvinists claim, ‘as they also have to answer for why God allows evil to happen.’ While I admit that I hate the evil that happens in this world, and I often weep and wail to God over it, there is an enormous difference between God merely permitting men to reject his will (to do that which he does not will, which is evil) and God deliberately predetermining that man must irresistibly perform said evil acts.
A great, big, enormous, immeasurable difference.
One scenario leaves God innocent of evil-doing, while allowing men the freedom to make their own choices, even when they lead to really bad things happening. Things which God would never desire for them to choose. The other scenario has God planning, ordaining, and ensuring that evil comes into existence, long before the individual who will irresistibly perform it even exists. Whatever ‘means’ the Calvinist asserts his god uses to bring evil to pass, it still sprung from Calvi-god’s mind, his will and his predetermination, like whatsoever comes to pass must, under Calvinism, unfailingly do.
Calvinists do not like to face this unpleasant reality. Even less do they like admitting it to others. They will turn on a dime from proclaiming God’s sovereignty and control of all people and events to suggesting that man has the freedom to pursue his own desires, making him, supposedly, the source of evil. But what is it that men are really choosing? Do they have the freedom to resist doing the evil that God (Calvi-god) has preordained in eternity past?
Can the reprobate (according to Calvinism) repent of wickedness and live a life of righteous obedience? No and no.
Under Calvinism, all things – and ‘all’ means ‘all’ – are predetermined, not merely foreknown, by God. This is the key distinction between Calvinist and most other believers, who acknowledge that God foreknows but does not irresistibly bring to pass sin and evil. Most Calvinists do not have the stomach to face this reality, or if they do, they know that most people in the pews do not. As my former Calvinist pastor, who claimed to unflinchingly preach whatever scripture says, said to me: ‘If I said that from the pulpit everyone would leave’. There are very, very few Calvinist pastors who will teach what their theology genuinely demands, because they know that everyone would reject such a God, them and their church.
(For all the posts in the "Calvinist Bad Logic" series, see the "Intro ..." Or look for "'Calvinist Bad Logic' Series" in the labels on the side-bar. Or find the whole series in one post, "When Calvinism's 'Bad Logic' Traps Good Christians.")
And so I ask, Can you see why differentiating between "cause" and "allow" is so important?
God's character and the truth and message of the Gospel is on the line!
For the posts in this series, see the "Understanding God's Will" label in the sidebar (or find the original series, without the Calvinism info, by clicking here).
